Can land taxes make product chains unprofitable?

  • Dear all,

    TLDR: Are land taxes really 280GS/week? Do they go to the treasury (so that we can siphon it back)?

    Sorry for starting a new thread, but I wanted to keep this as a separate topic.

    I might be misunderstanding the land tax system.

    I want to show my problem on a simple example of a vertically integrated P4_Kleidung chain.

    What's the full profits for a theoretical production chain which produces 1 P4_Kleidung?

    Profit pre taxes = Revenue - Expenses

    Profit post taxes = Revenue - Expenses - Land Taxes

    P4_Einnahmen Revenue = 630 GS

    1 cloth shop produces 1 cloth which sells for 630 (1.8 multiplier to base price at X1 according to the ini file)

    We have no other revenue, because the P4_TuchP4_Wolle simply get used up in the vertical chain.

    P4_Ausgaben Expenses = 525 GS

    1 P4_Kleidung shop needs 1 P4_Tuch shop which in turn needs 1 P4_Wolle shop -> 3 shops

    1 shop uses 25 workers, each gets 6 GS daily, plus 25 GSfor running costs (base is 50 GS but we assume we researched the techs).

    That's 3*(25*6+25)=525 GS

    P4_Ausgaben Land Taxes = 120 GS

    land taxes cost 280GS/7 days.

    We have three shops in the chain.

    That's 3*280/7=120 GS

    Profit pre taxes = 630 GS - 525 GS = 105 GS

    Profit post taxes = 630 GS - 525 GS - 120 GS = -15 GS

    And that's a loss actually post taxes.

    I attached a graph which contains all chains' respective profits before and after taxes.

    (Yes, even before taxes P4_Fleisch P4_Fell P4_Kleidung are pretty bad for vertical integration targets according to this simple calculation.)

    Aka, if land taxes work like 280 GS/week applied across all buildings and the tax does not go into treasury where we can siphon it out, then the cloth shop chain actually drains money.

    I really fear that this is the case, because I just got my hands on a full hansa save.

    It had 38047 shops, 38068 houses and 943 warehouses which should cost 30 823 200 GS.

    The 10 day projection on the balance sheet said 28 790 800 GS and kept climbing.

    I don't know why it is off by a little but it is in the ball park of the 280 GS / week tax which is troublesome.

    A small note:

    I only used the end product trade as revenue.

    I could've added rent, head taxes etc...

    Best regards,


  • Hi again,

    I made a mistake and used the raw data from Bagaluth excel.

    After adjustments the required shop count for 1 shop producing an end product is for me:











    Aka the bagaluth excel's 1P4_Kleidung demands 1P4_Tuch is actually in kilograms, so I way overshot the required shop count, and had to adjust for kg/day.

    Attached an updated graph.

    Now back to the original question:

    Is the land tax simply voided? Or is it in the city treasury?

    Also, for example land tax for your meat shops in Aalborg won't show up in their specific financial window if you click on them only in the counting house view's balance sheet.



  • Hi rkeeves,

    Welcome to the forum!

    I'm not sure where you get the (additional) land tax amounts from - probably you looked at the balance in the office?

    This value is the sum of taxes (ney, lets say costs) for shops and residential buildings.

    You already note the costs for a shop as 175GS = 150GS for workers and 25GS running costs (respective researches assumed).

    The running costs of 25GS are part of the land tax in the office balance, i.e. there are no additional tax costs, when you click on a shop the tax is already included in the cost value.

    You calculate with a 1/1/1-shop-relation to produce P4_Kleidung but that is not really correct for different shops produce different numbers of goods per day. In your example the daily production of the three shops is 4 P4_Wolle, 2 P4_Tuch (consuming 2 P4_Wolle) and 1 P4_Kleidung (consuming 1 P4_Tuch) => 2 P4_Wolle and 1 P4_Tuch are left. Thus the simpliest production chain which consumes every pre-product is 1/2/2.

    Lets have a look how this results when calculating the profit of P4_Kleidung (research-boni ignored due to easier figures):

    1 P4_Wolle costs 200/4 = 50GS

    1 P4_Tuch costs (200 + 2*50) / 2 = 150GS

    1 P4_Kleidung costs 200 + 150 = 350GS

    Profit without research: 630 - 350 = 280GS

    Result: P4_Kleidung is a good product to make profit... but: just as you wrote in your other theme I also play with a lack of P4_Kleidung due to the fact that a complete supply with all goods is not possible.

    Well, beside that, don't worry, getting bankrupt is nearly impossible in P4 - but who am I to announce this towards a calculation-genius. ;)

    Stop narrating, Cete, the main point is still not answered! Taxes and how the town, ahem we, may benefit!

    Take a look into the town hall of the city where you are the mayor or any founded town. The good news: the town receives some money, the bad news: the greedy Land-Lord takes more for himself. The town recieves 10GS per shop and a "head-tax" that depends on the tax-rate and the number of inhabitants of course (comparing to the shop-taxes it is about 15 instead of 10 modulo tax-rate in the town).

    As you can see "English" is not my native language but hopefully my lines are understandable. Please don't hesitate to ask further on!

    Best Regards and again Welcome,


    Edit: P4_Kleidung Profit corrected - 280GS instead of 180GS.

  • Dear Cete,

    Really thanks for the answer!

    It is an honor for me to "meet" a long time pro in this forum.

    Yeah, embarassingly I misinterpreted the material needs in one of the spreadsheets (maybe Bagaluth's). :wacko:

    To my defense, I didn't want to edit the first post, so I corrected it in my second post in this thread via using kg/day data from the ini file. We came to the same conclusion.


    Thank you also for clarifying where the tax goes.

    This means, sadly, we cannot do standard modern day tax evasion schemes. [; (]

    I'm simply trying to maximize profits with one goal:

    Buy up all lands after 10 years from game start.

    My main problem is revenue from trade+production in a 32x10k Hansa simply isn't pulling as much money in as needed to complete all land purchases.

    I'll need a lot of years to simply accumulate the money and I'll be over 1380.

    Also, I don't want to go above 10k/town, because after that the Lord's mood drops too quickly.

    But maybe that's the trick, getting above the 10k mark?

    But if others went over 32x10k how did they manage the mood drops?

    Bye and thanks again for the answer,


    As a side question:

    Is the community dead? Or is the german sub active/people moved to another forum/P4 failed and people moved back to P2(P3), Rise Of Venice?



    P.S.: Off-topic but for me it was insane to learn that the englishmen IRL for a time relied upon hanseatic traders for stable currency. The mere fact of the Hansa's existence is fascinating. Such an interesting time period and place for a game.