Beiträge von Starstruck

31.3.01:

8486 rich(15.5%), 10517 wealthy(19.2%), 35865 poor, 5.9, 6.0, 5.8, 2687 production

415 schiffe, 154 kapitane.

No second walls complete yet, but should have 5-6 done by next check-in at end of June. Ridiculous brick production means other goods aren't yet piling up on the docks, but there are no shortages that I'm noticing. Relying on seizings to augment timber, fish and grain supplies.

Only problem city is London which will fill its rich houses around the same time as the city wall will expand (most probably October 1!). Poor housing there is filled with current population ~ 5400. 3 cities above 5000 pop with a couple more very close (max: 6000, min: 4000). All cities except London should have unimpeded growth for next 3 months.

Ripen will reach 1000 population on April 10, and awaits the builders finishing the wall.

I have now submitted my rerun 1300 save.
Which leads me to ask - is my old 1301 save (the one with 26.5% rich and 37.8% wealthy) of value to anyone? It won't now be submitted & posted in the normal course of things - and is likely to be surpassed - but it seemed to intest people ...

Any suggestions?

Wasa post from "Zwischenstände 1300", "RE: Starstruck v2, 31.12.00"

Thanks!

With your numbers published I kept close track of where I was compared to you and Ugh as I ran through. At 1 October we had essentially the same number of rich (+79), but already I had 5500 more poor (and suspect I had them from July - that's where the beer-fuelled "hump" in my population is). After 1 Oct, I pulled slightly ahead in raw numbers.
Our rich (wealthy) growth per day, per town, was:
October:
Star - 2.87 (2.56)
Wasa - 2.31 (3.00)
November:
Star - 2.89 (2.44)
Wasa - 1.97 (2.84)
Ugh - 2.78 (3.11)
December:
Star - 2.77 (2.66)
Wasa - 2.59 (1.83)
Ugh - 2.68 (1.83)

I suspect that with less poor around you were having a harder time keeping the +3 rich growing in all towns. Still, your final numbers are (obviously) amazing
I had other problems - I managed to keep rich at a flat 6 happiness ok, but had a lot of problems with wealthy and especially poor dropping down to 3-4 happiness; partly a timber shortage but I had problems even after I got past that. In the end I had to strip my arbitrage convoy of meat/IG to ensure there were no happiness problems in December; I didn't have straight sixes until ~ Dec 15, and still had to forward-wind to detect and avoid emerging unhappiness in Edinburgh/Reval/Ladoga. And in every assessment from mid September on, I had rich happier than wealthy happier than poor - backwards from most!
Those happiness problems are reflected above - you have much better wealthy growth pre-December. And I have a lot of empty gabled houses as a result of less wealthy than hoped-for

I think I had four 2nd walls and two 3rd walls on my first run through of 1301 (that controversial save )

It never occurred to me to try taking the AM mission while the AI was fighting :O. Good idea. Failing that the method I outlines works fine; I used it at least four times (2 or 3 on first runthrough, twice on the latest one - I killed a pirate nest for my third mission). But opening Ugh's save and seeing the whole string of them ... !

BTW, I usually just run a well armed crayer for all missions unless I know I'm getting a hulk - and still then if I don't have an armed cog handy. In 1300 my 31-sailor crayers win against crayers on autosave, and if attacked by a hulk I fight manually and end up with a 20-30 life hulk. Good for expanding shipyards )

Contest Values:
6,6,6
19.9%, 27.1%
1033 Production (congrats to Bizpro taking over #1 spot! )

Other Data:
268 schiffe/ships (no whites left, 7459 capacity)
108 kapitäne/captains
UW/CV 44.9M
6491 Rich, 8827 Wealthy, 17266 Poor

44 siezings since 1.10.00:
10 schniggen, 5 crayers, 1853 holz, 434 getreide, 236 fisch, 610 bier, 21 fleisch

Despite my absolute best efforts , still ~49 points behind Wasa.
Congrats!

Now, being crazy , I'm aiming to build as many walls as at all possible in 1301 ...

Charlotte
Thankyou! Sounds good :).

So, does Ugh! answer to "Ugh!" in person?

Two questions for all:
1. How are Wasa / Ugh etc. (possibly many others) completing so many Aldermann pirate missions?

The only way I've worked out to do them is a bit annoying:
Trigger a pirate (pirate or escort or patrol mission)
Fight and flee
Go to the Aldermann office and take a mission, s/loading until getting the one with the right name.
Fight again and capture/kill the pirate.

I haven't been able to get the pirate names matching if I accept a mission before the pirate is "on the board" - which means this process needs two fights instead of one, and occasionally the pirate can't be refought and sails away. Is there a simpler way?

2. Is there any benefit to doing more than three Aldermann pirate missions?

1.12.00

Ships: 217
Captains: 94
CV: 38.3M
Pop: 34373
Production: 1091 (before winter drop)

Rich: 5422 (15.8%)
Wealthy: 7796 (22.7%)
Happiness: 6.0 - 5.7 - 5.3 (r-w-p)

Still aiming around the 19.x% & 26.x% marks for 31.12

I'm fairly certain my approach can't get to 21%. I'll be very happy if I can make 20%, but 19% is more likely. Still, a lot of time to play before then.

I dismissed at least 15,000 sailors in early 1302 for the same purpose.
No problems that I noticed.

Following the current fads. Estimating that I'll be somewhere above Ugh and below Wasa for 1300-end (~19% rich & 26% wealthy if I can keep near-max growth, or lower otherwise). Can't manage to keep the high happiness that Wasa achieved from Sept-Oct, although I'm probably pushing the brick-timber production harder than he did.

Stats and comparison to (my previous run / Wasa's rerun)

1.10.00

Ships: 141 (+30/?)
Captains: 63 (+20/?)
CV: 19.6M (+11.2M/?)
Production: 715 (+27/?)
Married (for a cog & crayer), one white snaikka left
Rich:
3312 (+1003/+79)
14.1% (+3.3%/-2.6%)
5.4 (+2.7/-0.6)
Wealthy:
5964 (+376/+380)
20.8% (+0.7%/-3.6%)
5.0 (+1.0/-1.0)
Poor:
19444 (-539/+5357)
4.4 (+0.2/-1.6)

I was going to ask how Vielitz went ... I guess someone else can answer! Sorry to hear you missed your trip.

I'm in Oxford now, so about an hour + half from London. I'll be working full time in October (and you didn't arrange a convenient weekend), but if you're interested I can see closer to the date if I can maybe get a day out.

Oh ... my mistake. I had thought that once you submitted the save was fixed.

Hi,

Just after clarification with the new 00 standings - are resubmissions now allowed, or did Ugh! receive a special dispensation for some reason?

@Ugh! Sorry, somehow didn't see this post when it came on.

Sitting on my harddrive, waiting for me to come back to Patrician. I played it through to about January 30-ish 1302. There were a few things not-quite-perfect that I wanted to look back and see if I could improve by replaying December (for some reason some of my industries were short, say, 50 workers, while another type in the same city would be short 450 workers. Recovery is faster if both industries are short 250 each and I wasn't quite sure why that hadn't happened).

So submission is awaiting my starting playing Patrician again and making that decision ...

Zitat

Vielleicht liegt es ja auch doch daran, dass du überall Münzen stehen hast

Rich, Wealthy and Poor numbers in early October in Reval for my game. This is buffered before and after with +3 rich/wealthy growth:

Date-Rich-Wealthy-Poor-R Occupancy-W Occupancy
4-Oct- - -137 459 1516 57% 66%
5-Oct- - -140 462 1514 58% 66%
6-Oct- - -144 465 1515 60% 66%
7-Oct- - -148 468 1520 62% 67%
8-Oct- - -152 471 1521 63% 67%
9-Oct- - -156 474 1526 65% 68%
10-Oct- - 160 477 1527 67% 68%
11-Oct- - 164 480 1532 68% 69%
12-Oct- - 167 483 1538 70% 69%

ie, from 5th October there is +4 growth of rich until ~ 68% occupancy. Only +3 growth of wealthy though ?(.

AND ... on 5th October a mint was placed (not finished until 80 days later - I guess that doesn't matter).

Taking the 5th October save and fast forwarding without building the mint:
4-Oct- - -137 459 1516
5-Oct- - -140 462 1514
6-Oct- - -143 465 1516
7-Oct- - -146 468 1522
8-Oct- - -149 471 1524
9-Oct- - -152 474 1530
10-Oct- - 155 477 1532
11-Oct- - 158 480 1538
12-Oct- - 161 483 1544

ie, without the mint there is only +3 growth of rich regardless of occupancy.

So the +4 / +3 switch I reported before probably only occurs with mints placed.

BTW, Happiness was assessed only as rich: 2-3, wealthy: 4-5, poor: 3-4 in this period. So high happiness is not needed.

Mmm, odd. Looking at my stats from 1300, I have a few cases with >90/93 immgrants per month:

98 wealthy into Ladoga between 1.8 - 1.9 (total pop 1524-1776)
103 wealthy into Stettin between 1.9 - 1.10 (total pop 2272-2524)
102 wealthy into Edinburgh between 1.10 - 1.11 (total pop 2600-3512)
99 rich into Reval between 1.10 - 1.11 (total pop 2084-2360).

The Reval and Ladoga ones at least do not seem to match a change at 3000 people. Specific numbers for Reval:
Poor: 1506 - 1593
Wealthy: 450 - 540
Rich: 128 - 227

Time is short at the moment but I will try and look at my old saves more closely soon. I suspect that rather than a strict population change, the % occupancy at which the 3 to 4 shift happens depends on one/some other factors - possibly including population, or happiness. When I was investigating in 1301 I had some changeovers between 3/4 growth as low as (from memory, exact numbers are on a different computer) 63% occupancy, and some not until 68/69%. Never saw only 3 growth occur as low as 59% though, and did not work out what caused the deviations. 67% seemed a typical average for the changeover point in my game.

I reported on the English side that I see +4 rich or wealthy growth when occupancy of rich / wealthy housing falls below about 67%. This seems to happen regardless of town size, at least up to the 8k or so total population that I have.

Wasa

<not in Deutsche ...>

I did actually build some roads, but only late in the year and when road coverage was below 80%, to avoid getting plague.

I assume plague is not good for satisfaction ;).

@BT
It's not a vote of one.

@all
Despite my (nonsensical, in this case) contest tactics, I agree that the exploits of this game are silly. All the money generation methods, of which arbitrage seems the most extreme, just mean that the entire economic side of Patrician is removed. And all others tend to remove something too.

My background is one of taking a game and ruthlessly manipulating it as best I can to do as well as possible . Then when the game is over, I (usually with others) redesign it as best we can to get rid of every possibility/exploit we used/thought of that takes away from gameplay. And we restart with a game a bit closer to the 'sort of game we want to play' . But my personality is such that I'll then take that game, and squeeze every point/orc/planet out of it that I can get within the rules ... before redesigning it again to remove all the easy ways (be they 'legitimate' or not) of doing so . Altruist, Universal Mob, Zane etc. & I (as Starstrike) all did that in the beta rounds of the online game Imperial Conflict. Some friends (two of them German for those saying it's only New World) then spun off from there and did the same with Atlantis - to the point that after four rounds our Arcadia branch barely resembles the original Atlantis. But it has a lot fewer imbalances and exploits, and a lot more strategic diversity :D.

Unlike here I'm not used to sharing exploits or tactics during a game - trying to work out how others did X was always a common theme ?(. If no-one managed to work it out, all would be revealed when the game finished or the opportunity for the exploit closed . Still, similar principle.

The equivalent that I'd prefer here would be for arbitrage to be hailed as wondrous in its first year - and then outlawed or somehow sidelined for every subsequent contest. Ditto, turkish building, gold nuggets, hemp tricks, evicting of poor. Some things, like how to select NPT goods or cascades, would just stay wondrous .

I didn't contribute to the discussion on this contest because I was new to Patrician, and because most of it is in German. But my preference, by far, would be for a contest where it is played as designed, without arbitrage etc. And also for an assessment system that is not easily manipulated, eg structure on new year. Although I can't deny that's hard to design .

I don't care if contest rules are not enforceable/proveable; I'll submit saves and be happy with them when I'm satisfied I've done my best - within reason - to optimise my save to do as well as I can, regardless of what others do. That's not to say I'm not competitive, but I don't think the possibility of "uncatchable cheats" would detract from enjoying a contest for me, provided the community spirit was against such play. (I mention this because I think that was one of the big arguments against banning exploits).

In summary, I'll vote for clean games all the way.

[PS Why don't they have a devil smiley to go with the angel? It's a bit hard on the pirates me using them that way]

Err ... don't know. No one told me it wasn't possible, so ...

Those numbers were probably rounded and you mis-multiplied the wealthy. My recorded stats (just double checked from a save) are below. Sorry about the formatting; I don't know a quick/easy way to correct it for posting here:

City Rich Wealthy Poor Rich Wealthy Poor
London - - -168 320 1024 4 5 5
Brugge - - - 165 248 1295 3 2 3
Bremen - - -126 337 1061 2 5 6
Hamburg - -133 390 1193 2 4 4
Edinburgh- -160 286 1198 3 2 3
Bergen- - - -140 422 1326 2 3 5
Oslo - - - - - 148 477 1559 2 4 6
Gotenburg 102 325 1069 1 4 5
Stettin - - - 163 328 1245 3 3 3
Danzig - - - -157 467 1368 3 5 6
Reval - - - - -121 379 1164 2 4 4
Ladoga - - - 126 255 1143 2 4 4
Total - - - - 1709 4234 14645 2.42 3.75 4.50

Everything's well below the 240 rich "limit" and I guess I was just carting goods around with captured ships, etc., to keep people happy. Goteburg's not doing too well of course, but the rest look decent.

I kindof went away from continuing my Patrician game a couple of weeks ago and started a MOO3 largish galaxy instead, which is currently about 200 years in. When I've finished getting my gasbags to conquer the ants, rocks, humans, cyborgs, lizards and fish on my doorstep I'll start back on Patrician again